PETER HAIN ADDRESSES WELSH GRAND COMMITTEE

13 Dec 2007 04:25 PM

Secretary of State for Wales, Peter Hain yesterday told Welsh MPs that he would continue to champion devolution within the Union.

Addressing the Welsh Grand Committee Mr Hain spoke of a confident, self–governing, internationalist Wales.

Mr Hain said: "With the help of the Queen´s Speech and the Comprehensive Spending Review, Wales is moving forward with confidence. Against a backdrop of a flourishing Welsh economy, political culture and identity, devolution is strengthening the partnerships that bind together the nations of the United Kingdom."

A full transcript of Mr Hain´s speech to the Welsh Grand follows:

Thank you Mr Caton, it´s a pleasure to serve under your Chairmanship once again.

With the help of the Queen´s Speech and Comprehensive Spending Review, Wales is moving forward with confidence. The legislative powers delivered in the Government of Wales Act 2006 are being put into action, with the Welsh Assembly Government able to progress policy more widely and more deeply than ever before. Against a backdrop of a flourishing Welsh economy, political culture and identity, devolution is strengthening the partnerships that bind together the nations of the United Kingdom.

The energies of both Governments and legislatures in Westminster and Cardiff are now focused on ensuring the 2006 Government of Wales Act works as intended: to deliver power to the Welsh Assembly and broaden legislative authority where appropriate, on an incremental basis, with each bid subject to Parliamentary approval.

Both the Order in Council and framework power processes are guided by these principles, and both are already delivering.

In the forthcoming Session three Bills contain new Framework powers. The Education and Skills Bill will transfer power to enable the Assembly to regulate the inspection of education and training for those 16 and under, and regulate and register the inspection of independent schools in Wales.

The Local Transport Bill supports the Government´s strategy to tackle congestion and improve public transport, and the framework power will allow the Assembly to legislate in relation to road pricing in explicitly limited circumstances.

The Planning Bill will modernise and improve the planning system, cutting down bureaucratic and lengthy delays in the system. The Assembly will be given increased power over local development plans and the Wales Spatial Plan.

Already the Additional Learning Needs Order in Council has been before the Welsh Affairs and Lords Constitution Committees for pre–legislative scrutiny, and the Domiciliary Care order has been published for pre–legislative scrutiny by both Parliament and the Assembly. Constructive negotiations are on–going regarding Orders on Environmental Protection, Vulnerable Children, Affordable Housing and the Welsh language.

Through both the Order in Council and framework power processes it is therefore possible that in this session the Welsh Assembly Government will be granted the authority to pass legislation in nine areas – nine times more than pre the 2006 Act, when a single annual Welsh Bill would have been passed.

The backbone of both the new Order in Council and Framework Power mechanisms is, and will remain, our commitment to devolve power where there is a purpose. Powers requested for a purpose and powers devolved for a purpose – the purpose of improving the quality of life of people in Wales.

I stand by what I have said previously: there will be no shortcuts, no full primary powers by the back–door, no compromise on the primacy of Parliament and its right to scrutinise. Parliament is, and remains, the sovereign body of the UK – it does not rubber stamp anything.

Subject to demand, Standing Committees for Bills with Framework Powers will now include at least one Welsh Member, and time will be guaranteed to debate Welsh provisions. And for Orders in Council, real progress will only be made once UK Government clearance has been agreed, since it is only then that parliamentary scrutiny can commence. Any other approach is a departure from agreed procedure and ultimately counterproductive.

Last week the Affordable Housing Order in Council was laid before the Assembly in draft, without Wales Office clearance. Negotiations are on–going with the Welsh Assembly Government to assess the full implications of this Order, and I am of course keen to see it proceed. However, let´s be clear that publication of an Order without Whitehall clearance contravenes agreed process and is not helpful to smooth progress.

The transfer of power will always be subject to the approval of both Houses. At every opportunity the Wales Office will aid and inform Members of both Houses on the detail and progress of Welsh specific legislation to ensure full and proper scrutiny.

But I also want to make clear that any deliberate blocking of the will of the National Assembly is not acceptable to me. I will support bids for legislative competence wherever possible. Where the parameters of a legislative bid can be clearly identified, and when we can establish that its scope lies firmly within the remit of the 2006 settlement, we will work to ensure successful passage though Parliament and oppose anti–devolution obstacles.

Getting this Order in Council process right needs careful attention – we are all on a legislative learning curve.

We have on the one end devo–sceptics, who insist Parliament must in advance dot and cross every i and every t of the Assembly´s forthcoming Measures, who insist that every detail of future Welsh Assembly Government policy be disclosed immediately for Parliamentary consent to proceed.

And on the other end we have ultra–devolutionists, who view any scrutiny by Parliament or question by Whitehall as laced with malevolent intent to suppress the spirit of devolution and the will of Wales.

Both positions are wrong and both undermine the terms of the 2006 Act. A passionate belief in devolution is not at odds with commitment to parliamentary process. We have a shared objective in the successful implementation of the Government of Wales Act, and this will rely on the successful partnership between the Governments in Cardiff Bay and Westminster.

Those who see Parliament as an obstacle or inconvenience flout the will of the Welsh people who voted in 1997 for a settlement that did not give the Assembly full law–making powers. As I said in my speech to the National Assembly two weeks ago, the relationship between our two Governments and between the Assembly and Parliament will need to be mature.

As we proceed to make this new system work there will undoubtedly be bumps in the road. To succeed, open and constructive negotiation is necessary: co–operation rather than competition, patient partnership not megaphone diplomacy. Devolution will only progress if we cherish a partnership based on mutual respect and recognition of our respective democratic mandates and accountability.

The Queen´s Speech highlights the strength of our bond, and the huge benefits brought to Wales from being a nation linked to, not separated from, the rest of Britain.

It contains wide–ranging Bills which will directly affect Wales and its future, ranging from pensions, security, education and housing to constitutional reform, which will tackle the biggest issues facing us today and tomorrow.

The Climate Change Bill, for example, will make Britain the first country in the world to introduce a legal framework for reducing carbon emissions by setting reduction targets for each five–year period up to 2050, while the Energy Bill provides greater incentives for the vital expansion of renewable energy generation.

The Pensions Bill will introduce new mandatory employer contributions and sets up a new scheme of low–cost personal accounts which will give millions of low to moderate earners, currently without a pension, the opportunity to save in good quality occupational pension schemes.

The breadth of legislation affecting Wales is testimony to the importance of our role as Welsh Members of Parliament. It is crucial that Welsh citizens have representatives in the House of Commons voicing their concerns and fighting their corner.

Every one of the 40 Welsh MPs help Wales´ voice to be heard in Westminster, and ensures Welsh voters count at Westminster. I simply do not understand the Welsh politicians and the Welsh chattering classes who argue for fewer Welsh MPs, for that would only disenfranchise Wales and harm Welsh interests.

Welsh Labour MPs helped to design and deliver the Government of Wales Act and it will be all Welsh MPs´ constituents who will be affected by the resultant Assembly Measures. It is right that our role and voice is protected and not diminished. We will be central to the success of devolution and above all the success of Wales.

I will also fight the Tory proposal for English Votes for English Laws. The Leader of the Opposition may commit himself to the Union, but his policies would wreck it.

The recent ICM Survey for the Sunday Telegraph shows that 69% of English people want to preserve the historic Union, and 62% say that their British identity is just as important as their Englishness. English, Welsh and Scottish citizens are also British, and proud to be so. The Tories´ pandering to the gallery of English nationalism and their casual disregard for the unity of Britain is not only dangerous, but also wildly out of touch.

The Tories´ proposed ‘English Grand Committee´ is an English Parliament in all but name. This would not only put an end to the equality that currently runs through the House of Commons, but stable government would become a thing of the past. Could an English Parliament with a different majority to that of a UK Parliament control health policy if it did not also control taxation policy?

The Speaker would become politicised, the practicalities of allocating voting rights on specific areas within a Bill only to the MPs whose constituencies are affected would complicate the parliamentary system to the point of gridlock, and where would it stop? Should only London MPs vote on the Crossrail Bill, which in fact will impact UK wide through cost implications for other budgets?

Constitutional instability on this scale would threaten the very existence of the United Kingdom.

It was Gladstone who said that devising such a system "passes the wit of man". It was John Major who referred to this as "constitutional chaos".

Indeed even the architect of this scheme recognises the damage it would cause. Speaking in the Financial Times in July 2006, Malcolm Rifkind said, "This proposal risks creating two classes of MP. It would be a constitutional abortion."

Legislation cannot be routinely divided as purely ‘English´, ‘Welsh´ or ‘Scottish´ due to the funding settlement for the Devolved Administrations. Legislation that impacts on education in England, for example, has cross–border funding and policy implications for Wales and Scotland, and so to divide voting rights as suggested would disenfranchise swathes of UK constituents.

Vernon Bogdanor, the professor of Government at Oxford University, said of this proposal, "This initially plausible idea would be as great a threat to the Union as the activities of Alex Salmond". The leader of the Conservative Party is not only indulging in populist opinionism, he is flirting with a policy, catastrophic for the future of the United Kingdom.

Labour is committed to a United Kingdom Parliament in which each MP is equal. First and Second class MPs are a virtual incitement to separatism.

This Queen´s Speech is both a milestone for Wales, and for Britain.

For the very first time a Government published a Draft Legislative Programme prior to the Queen´s Speech and launched a nation–wide consultation on its contents, enabling the people of Wales to have a full and active role in the development of the Government´s policy programme.


Mr Caton, such strong partnership between the UK Government in Westminster and Cardiff has produced huge progress in recent years. Wales has prospered with todays £14bn from the Treasury, doubling since 1997, delivering record investment in public services:

Following the Pre Budget Report, and three year Comprehensive Spending Review settlement, by 2010 – 11 the Wales Budget will be touching £16 Billion, some 130% higher in cash terms than in 1997. Even though this settlement was tighter, we still found £ 2 Billion more for Wales over the next three years – a 2.4% budget increase, better than all the rest of the UK average of 2.1%, Scotland 1.8% and Northern Ireland 1.7%.

This will help the Labour–led Government in Cardiff deliver its objectives, tackle priority areas for public investment, and build the world class Wales we all want. This Queen´s Speech and Pre Budget report show that only Labour, working in partnership in London and Cardiff, has a strong vision for the future and the policies to meet the challenges it presents.

But the Wales–UK partnership is not one–way. The devolution settlement is reciprocal by nature. UK Government policies are delivered in Wales in partnership with the Welsh Assembly Government to meet specific local needs. Labour´s vision for devolution within the Union respects both the different nations and identities while preserving the many benefits enjoyed from being united. We find strength in both our diversity and our shared values.

We will continue to champion our vision for devolution within the Union, because there is a dangerous and unpredictable alliance of parties whose policies will result in the separation of the United Kingdom. This is not just a policy difference, it is an ideological chasm that Labour will not cross. A coalition for stable government implementing Labour manifesto pledges is one thing, a coalition of belief or ideology is quite another. For us separatism is not an option. We will not compromise on devolution within the Union. We are stronger together and would be weaker apart. A confident, self–governing, internationalist Wales, proud of our Welsh patriotism but proud of our Britishness too: that is Labour´s vision, that is our mission.